This hearing took place in the courtroom of Prescott Judge Arthur Markham on January 8, 2015... in the matter of a request for an injunction against harassment filed a week earlier by Ms. Amanda
Beno-Marsh against Ms. Joy A. Collura.

J: = Judge Arthur Markham
M: = Amanda Beno-Marsh
C: = Joy A. Collura

Two witnesses were called to testify during the course of this hearing.

Ms. Beno-Marsh called former Prescott Wildland Division Chief Darell Willis.
Ms. Colluara called nationally renowned Wildland Fire Expert Dr. Ted Putnam.

The hearing begins...

J: Allright... if could have... uh... Ms. Bean... Beno-Marsh over on this side, please, and Ms. Collura over on this side, please.

M: This side for Beno-Marsh?

J: Ms. Beno-Marsh is gonna be on this side, and Ms. Collura is gonna be on this side. Thank you.

J: Allright. We're on the record, are we? Allright.

So... uh... ladies... uh... this is a case in which Ms. Beno-Marsh had come in and asked for an injunction against harassment, which... which I did grant.

Uh... Ms. Collura did ask for a, uh, hearing here today.

Uhm... first off... let me say that I'm not gonna stop somebody from going to a public meeting... and I did not do that in an order... but it's pretty obvious, Ms... Ms. Collura, that Ms. Beno-Marsh wishes to
be left alone and not get any emails or letters or... uh... just have you leave her alone entirely, wherever she might happen to be.

And Ms. Beno-Marsh... let me just ask you... if Ms. Collura were to swear... uh... to tell the truth here today and promise to stay away from you and not text you, not mail you... uh... I'm not gonna tell her
not to go to a public meeting but... uh... if you happen to be at the same public meeting to stay away from you at that public meeting... would that do it for you?

M: No.

J: Allright. So let me explain how we're gonna go forward.

Uh... Ms. Beno-Marsh... it's your duty to persuade me why should I leave an order in place, or modify it if need be. You get to testify. You get to call witnesses. Uh... uh... whoever testifies is gonna be put
under oath to swear to tell the truth.

Uh... Ms. Collura... you will have a chance to ask questions of any witness who testifies as will Ms. Beno-Marsh.

Uh... Ms. Beno-Marsh... did you wish to testify for yourself?

M: Uhm... I will. Yes.

J: Okay. Do you... raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth... so help you God?

M: Yes sir.

J: Uh... Ms. Beno-Marsh... you may put your hand down. Do you maintain that all of the information in the petition that you earlier filed is true and correct?

M: Yes.

J: Uh... tell me. Why should I leave the order in place? This is your chance to tell me whatever you want me to consider.

M: Uhm... I wrote something this morning 'cus I just... you know...

J: Would you like to read it?

M: ...might be a little bit nervous this afternoon.

J: You can just stand... you can just sit there and read it out loud.

M: Okay. Thank you.

( Ms. Beno-Marsh pauses, then begins reading her prepared statement... )

Joy has turned this injunction against harassment into a fiasco by writing about it online at InvestigativeMEDIA... which is a blog site... and telling people it is a restraining order, when it is not.

She has also been contacting media and high ranking officials and fire investigators to try to get them to either create a story about this for the news, or be character witnesses for this hearing.

She seems to believe this is a restraining order to keep her from the Weaver mountains... which it isn't.

I stated on the paperwork for the injunket... injunction that I didn't want Joy at the Yarnell memorial meetings because I don't want her drama there. I don't want to see her.

She causes drama. So much of it. I don't actually care if she gets up and speaks about the closure area of the deployment site.

What I do care about is that she is causing emotional harm and stress and I don't want her anywhere near me, including the memorial meetings.

I am not trying to silence Joy from speaking at the meetings.
I am trying to keep her away from me.

I would be present at every Yarnell memorial meeting.

I put Karen Fann's name next to the meeting on the paperwork because I wanted to be very clear what meeting it was. The Yarnell memorial meeting with Karen Fann.

Neither she, nor any of the other Board members has anything to do with this injunction against harassment. Joy... and others... seem to be making up all this 'stuff' accusing me, and others on the
Board, of being in cohoots to keep Joy from being able to speak at the meeting... and she really isn't that important.

I thought an injunction against harassment would keep her from anywhere I would be. It doesn't. That is why that part of the injunction was denied by the Judge.

She and others have gotten themselves all worked up believing in a conspiracy theory which includes me as a key player which doesn't exist.

I am actually trying to move forward to rebuild my life after losing my husband, Eric Marsh, and many men I adored and loved, on the Yarnell Hill Fire.

What Joy and these others are focusing on... and what I am focusing on... are way different.

They are seeking answers to why the guys died.

I am trying to protect the closure area and deployment site, and I am trying to put my world back together.

I don't ask the question of what they die... uh... why they died because that absolutely hurts me to my core. I cannot go there and I shouldn't have to.

I was a shattered woman. Now I am back together... but the cracks are still there.

I am a fragile widow of a national tragedy.

I was married to the golden boy... and everyone seems to want a piece of him... and it hurts me when people don't have the decency to accept my boundaries.

What they don't understand is that on the outside I am tough, because I have to be... but inside I am SO sad... so close to tears almost all the time.

People who haven't gone through something like this have no idea what it is like.

( Sound of a a page turning )

I DON'T WANT to focus on Joy and Sonny.

And Sonny is also in this room.

Psychics in the closure area and in and around the deployment site trying to contact Eric and my friends... or crazy conspiracy theories.

I just want my life to resemble some state of normalcy.

If Joy wants to live in the drama and conspiracy theories and try to continue moving forward with claiming her 15 minutes of fame... that is HER deal... but keep me OUT of it.

I am trying to move forward from this tragedy and let go... but when Joy sends me emails about contacting the Granite Mountain hotshots with a psychic... I get very offended.

My husband deserves to rest in peace. He fought the hard fight... and he died.

I deserve to have him rest in peace without someone who has no real involvement and that but for a very short period of time the day he died... telling me that Eric visits her and motivates her... or that
there is new information based on her psychic.

It is lacking in actual empathy and compassion for me.

As Eric's spouse... I should be allowed the dignity of not having to have that nonsense around me... that she contacts me and tells me about her psychic... who calls herself "the lady of the dead". How
offensive is that?

And contacts other family members and tells them the same really shows a lack of judgement on her part.

I shouldn't have to fight for my boundaries. None of us should.

( 3 second pause ).
( Sound of another page being turned ).
( Another 2 second pause ).

All of this really started because Joy is bringing people into the closure area and denying it.

She has brought media into the closure area.
She has given guided tours into the closure area... stating it all on InvestigativeMEDIA... then denying it.

She doesn't turn anyone away. She brings anyone who wants to go.

My husband DIED there.

His was a scary ending... and very brutal... and it hurts me and horrifies me.

It is a sacred place to me... and that is why I fight to protect the site ( she begins to cry as she finishes this statement ).

This is my life now and it only seems to be Joy's entertainment and a way for her to be part of something.

She claims so much to be part of this... and she isn't.

In reality... she met Eric and the guys and watched them work on the day they died.
My husband asked her and Sonny to leave the area so retardant drops could be made.
He was not her friend. He was polite because he was working and that was part of his job.

The remained in the area even though Er... Eric asked them to leave and they took photos of the guys.

Then the Granite Mountain hotshots died... and because Joy and Sonny met them and took pictures they believe they have a psychic connection to them.

They have a very intense sense of entitlement that really comes across as obsession.

I have asked Joy to let them go.
I have told her she can walk away from this at any time but she refuses to do that.

I have been working with law enforcement on this matter.

When I find out Joy has gone to the closed area... which she and Sonny did on Christmas night... even having an illegal campfire on closed State trust land... I alert the Yavapai County sheriff's office...
because it is illegal for her to be in the closure area.

Even though she has State Trust land permits to be on State Trust land, those permits are not valid at an enclosure area. Period.

And I have that documentation with me.

They had the illegal fire on Christmas night in view of the Helms Ranch.

I don't know if you're familiar with the Helms Ranch... but it was a safe zone where Eric was trying to go to save his life.

The Helms have been so traumatized by the Yarnell Hill fire and I cannot believe Joy and Sonny would be so cruel as to have a fire like that... in a place that the Helms could see... that can trigger so
much from the day of the fire for people who have been through what they have lived through.

( Sound of a page turning )

Joy and Sonny lack judgement that borders on cruelty.

I find Joy's strange behavior to be escalating.

She raised all those threatening statements on InvestigativeMEDIA, which I have.

It's all twisted up in conspiracy theories that... at the next moment writes about how much she likes me. At the end of one her emails she told me she loved me.

It's a roller coaster.

I'm actually afraid of her and Sonny too.

I'm afraid that Joy and Sonny will show up on my doorstep someday, and that is why I got the injunction against harassment.

She has harassed me... especially recently... not only by email but also on InvestigativeMEDIA and in the Congress country store on November 25, 2014.

This was after I sent her an email asking her not to contact me.

It is after I sent her an email specifically stating that I WOULD get an injunction against harassment if she contacted me again.

She recognized me in the store because of my feet, she said, and introduced herself. Then she had a very loud conversation with the lady behind the counter I believe she wanted me to hear.

She told her she had a Craig's List ad that invited people to contact her about going to the closure area. She told the woman that she and Sonny were headed to the site right then.

She spoke about takin' firefighters to the site.

After she left, I spoke with the woman behind the counter.
I asked her if she went to the site with Joy. She said no.
I told her who I was. I told her it is illegal for Joy to be at the site.
She told me Joy is bent on finding the truth.
I told her that there were no truths to be found at the site.

I don't believe that going to the site would give someone like Joy any information, other than that there was a terrible, hot fire that claimed the lives of 19 good men.

She has no fire science experience.

When she found out I spoke to her friend... she ripped me apart repeatedly on InvestigativeMEDIA... and I have that as well.

I want Joy to never contact me again. Zero. Zero contact ever again... and I do not believe that her saying that she won't do it in here is enough... because she repeatedly has gone beyond the things
that I've asked her not to do.

I have put my boundaries out there and she continually pushes against them.

I want her to stay out of the closure area... which includes the two-track road.

It is... if she is going to be hiking she should understand how a map works.
Personal responsibility means that she should understand where the boundary is and not cross it in the closure area.

( Sound of a page turning )

I want her to understand that I am not part of a conspiracy theory to keep her from speaking. I don't think that what she has to say has any relevance, anyway.

I just want her to stay away from me.

I am afraid of her... and what she is capable of.

I have worked with law enforcement on this injunction against harassment and they agreed I should file. I am not a lone wolf in the matter of this injunction against harassment.

( Paper shuffling sounds ).
( Ms. Beno-Marsh has now finished reading her prepared statement ).

J: Okay. Uh... Ms. Collura... do you have any questions you'd like to ask Ms. Beno-Marsh?

C: No... 'cus a lengthy...

J: I'll let you testify yourself, too... but did you have any questions you'd like to ask of Ms. Beno-Marsh?

C: No. I really feel bad... ah... for her perceptions.

J: Let me just have you... have your chance to testify. Do you wish to testify for yourself?

C: I'm sorry?

J: Do you wish to testify for yourself?

C: Yea... depend... it... depending on how you... I... I've never been in a court proceeding before.

J: You're gonna have the chance to present your side of the case. Ms. Beno-Marsh is gonna have a chance to present her side of the case. I've asked you if you wish to ask any questions of Ms.
Beno-Marsh and you sort of went sideways... didn't answer that 'ask her questions' a coupla times. I wanted to just... maybe... ask you... do you wanna testify for yourself first... and then maybe later ask
questions of Ms. Beno-Marsh?

C: Correct.

J: Raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth... so help you God?

C: Yes.

J: Allright. Go ahead and tell me your name.

C: Joy Collura

J: Good, Ms. Collura... you just tell me whatever you want me to consider. Why should I dismiss the order?

( Ms. Collura now begins reading from her own prepared statement )

C: On a Federal level I'm currently cleared with a thorough background check and I do contracted work with extremely criminally insane, severely challenged disabled PTSD veterans... and adults with
severe mental or physical challenges.

I have no history of being violent.

I feel the current order could reflect on my contracted work.

I wanna feel better... as well as I want the community to feel better... for 2015.

Currently the order... as is... as well as what she stated... has some falsehoods in... it's just her perception... which may be... just her belief.

Yet... I've never seen all 19 men as she has stated in her thing.

I've seen 3... and I have taken it... and... I have and I took it from my hearing a young boy on the bus and someone callin' out "Freckles".

I have no idea what that stuff is... but when I'm on the mountain... that's what I hear.

I'm not a psychic. I'm not a medium. I'm just a human being... a person.

I don't believe in that area.

Uhm... then the hikin' the nation's top lead fire fatality investigators... a large community of current and retired firefighters, hotshots, smokejumpers, CIA, Feds, media, journalists, producers of all
professional levels.

Not because I want 15 minutes of fame... but because that was the most horrific thing that coulda happened and people just want answers, as well as I, 'cus I was the eyewitness that day.

I do not have an obsession. I just want clarity.

Uhm... I hiked the Weavers 10 years before that fire.

The most tragic moment... and I just want clarity.

A concern of the nation... that too many opinions and theories are out there, as well, because I have eye-witnessed it... there is many details still not yet shown on the fire.

The plaintiff, in email, and as well to my hikin' pal in Congress, stated there is no more additional information. A recent concern some have of the paranormal world... or beliefs on that... and anyone who
knows me... I have put that area off from day one of the fire aftermath due to my own beliefs and the sensitivity of that topic.

Yet... I have never denied a hike... ever... to anyone... and I've been a hundred pre... hundred percent transparent... and I think what happened is... the perception of my hundred percent transparency
is being that I want 15 minutes of fame or I'm just trying dramatics.

As things happen... I've posted every detail. I've given it to every investigator.
I've given it to all the fire chiefs.

That... nobody has been 'not included'.

It's... it's a nationwide tragedy... so everybody has been included in that.

I scheduled one... I scheduled the psychics to... uh... take different times.

They both... uh... serve in the... uh... FBI... uh... murders... lost children and they serve on the top... uh... psychic medium list... and I would not get just any kind of... uh... person just to do it. I wanted the
best to do this... uh... to go out... I do not... and people keep stating that I go to the site... I have NOT been to the site except with OSHA... the investigators.

Uh... her... uh... perception of bein' on the two-track road.

I have a map here, sir, from Paxon and Payne from July of 2013, and
I have talked to State Land Trespasser Stephen ( Retrisher? ).

They ALL say that there is nothing they can do until there's proper definition of that area of what's restricted.

There is 320 acres which includes private home... private landowners and state land... and... the... uhm... sorry... I just never been in court so this is kinda strange for me. This kinda set... setting for
me... anyway.

Uhm.. and bein' up on that two-track that it seems to be... it's not only Amanda Marsh but another Granite Mountain hotshot's loved one's concern.

If anybody that had... and I have the paperwork here... anybody... uhm... that has hiked with me knows when I hike up there I like to go to the top of the mountain and Sonny Gilligan is the one that likes
to take the two-track if it's easier.

Either way... if you're on top of the mountain or the two-track road... it doesn't matter. You're... a matter of... one little spot up.

Uh... she says I did a fire on the two-track road. That's not correct.

My photo shows... and the investigators have that photo... and it shows the GPS is not in that location... so that is just her perception... and she nev... wasn't there.

Uhm... and... as far as... uhm...

( Pause )

Anyway... as far as scheduling these psychics... I only did that because one of the Granite Mountain hotshot loved ones sent me an email and stated I would... the hike... I'm hikin' with the History
Channel... and he's gonna be present with that...  and he said the one he mostly, though, wants to go with is the psychic.

When I set the dates... the two dates for the two different styles of mediums that go in courtrooms and does FBI investigations of murders and stuff... uhm... I got a reply back from the wife of him
stating... uhm... most... uh... like I'm not biblical... ya know... just a stance of... uh... that's wrong and it... it defaces... ya know...

It's one of the topics that's been sensitive from day one for me.

I feel, your honor, I'm known for my integrity and I'm not... I have all the documents here... but I'm not gonna throw people under the bus just to... my whole thing here is that... I would like it dismissed by
what I first told you. It would hurt my contracted work, and I would like to state that I will never... and permanently... speak...  uh... on my... whatever... I'm not usually an online person. Prior to this fire I
didn't go online and you would not see me but on hikearizona dot com or my hikin' page at zazzle dot com. Pri... prior to this.

You could dismiss this with the condition that I NOT attend a Yarnell meeting, or Prescott meetings, for the memorial as well as I no longer speak... or... whatever you call... type... on any online blog may
it be Bill Gabbert's Wildfire Today or John Dougherty's InvestigativeMEDIA.

That, to me... it seems like that's where a lot of the confusion is here. I am tryin' to be a hundred percent transparent as things happen... and then it's being... from another... and I understand the grief
and I understand everybody... it's a real sensitive thing... to like... understand ALL aspects of it.

And I would... it would relieve me... if I have a court order sayin' "Hey... you can't go on writin' on that"... then I'm done. That's... phew... two thousand fifteen starts fresh, good, and I don't have to worry
about that...

But by her stating some of the falsehoods in there.. I do have a document that proves that... uh... that... I wouldn't even... I shouldn't even be in this position today.

( Pause )

And my MAIN concern is... and I... I agree with her. I really a hundred percent agree with her and it... and it... it's not just her... it's a... it's a lotta people.... that there's too many theories out there and
there's too many things out there.

Uh... I think a lot of her... uhm... pickin' on what I write and stuff.. I... ya have to remember this... on October 14th... uh... Yarnell fire department uh... chief... captain Christy Lewis came up to me in the
senior center and stated "I can't go to the fence"... and mind you... a coupla days later I'm doin' the fence at 215... ah... McCormick for the Station 7 fence.

So, when Christy Lewis is comin' up to me at... all week I've had... I've... I've invited over 143 people... all week I was havin' people come up to me sayin' "I can't go to the fence"... ya know.

So when... at that day... when she came up to me on the 14th... she said "I can't take Amanda Marsh to the fence. It's real hard for me"... my mind's locked on Station 7 fence. It's not even locked on the
fence at the site.

So there was just a... a cloud of confusion... uh.. on that... and I felt... eh... when she said on October 15th she wanted nuthin' else to do with me and she'd get an injunction of harassment... and I
wrote... wrote back... "You bet. Respectfully, Joy A. Collura"... an... and not communicate her.

However... in the Yavapai County since then... not only have I gotten ALL through Prescott and its surrounding cities... ah... Congress and Yarnell... that this lady has stated that I'm not allowed UP
there... and if I keep continuin' I will get arrested.

Uhm... I get offended when someone keeps goin' around in... an... an I'm... I'm goin' to do my bloodwork and on Friday and Saturday I do my vegetable juice and then on Sunday I do my garlic and
water... and on December 1st, at 7:30 in the morning, I am heading to do my blood cancer markers labwork. I have no food in me. 7:30 in the morning. Sergeant Ashby is still in her pickup at the
Mountainaire Peeples Valley and Sonny is still in his vehicle... but Sergeant Ashby never once addresses Sonny about this matter... but when he goes in to get coffee she knocks on my window with a
tone... and she's always been kind to me... and says "I heard you been hikin' people to the site and you're not allowed".

And I said "Whoever told you that's givin' you misinformation and slander... and that's not correct".

And she says "Are you callin' me a liar?".

So as that... that conversation escalated... with the... I went to her superior and on her own accord, on December 2nd, she kindly called me back and said "I am very sorry for my behavior yesterday. It's
a sensitive topic. I have a lot of pressure on me. You understand that, Joy"

I said "I absolutely do".

I... I have hiked MANY of the loved ones of the Granite Mountain hotshots, as well as people I have named on here. It is a very, very sensitive... and I've hiked an ex-Granite Mountain hotshot... it's a
very, very sen... sensitive topic and I understand where she's at... and if I can do anything... if that's where everything's aimin' at... it it's aimin' at the websites.. I no longer will ever write on any website.
Period. And if it's about meetings and the sensitivity there... I will never go to any meetings.

I really care. She seems to think... and on a different level... I really care about every single one that was affected. Not just the Granite Mountain hotshots, but the people that lost their homes.

( That is the end of Ms. Collura's written statement and opening comments )

J: Thank you, Ms. Collura.

C: You bet.

J: Allright. So... ah... again... let's try not to get lost into fine details about things... uh...

M: Yes sir.

J: Again... let me just say that... uh... if I leave an order in place, I'm not gonna be explicitly telling somebody not to go to the site... or stay away from the fence, or whatever. I figure that's up to State...
State land department or somebody else to figure out boundaries or...

M: I understand.

J: ...regulations or whatever... so I'm... I'm just... I'm not gonna jump into that... uh... uh... uh... a bunch of issues about the site... or.. the.. the... uh... Weaver mountains or... indeed... the... the site where
they died.

So... Ms... uh... uh... Ms. Beno-Marsh... did you wish to ask any questions of Ms. Collura?

M: Uhmmmm...  there are a few. Can I still have like thirty seconds?

J: Sure.

M: Okay.

J: Again... try not to get lost in the details.

M: Yes sir. I will. So... uhm... on December twenty... okay... so... this blog site I didn't even go to until...

J: ( Interrupting ) Ms. Beno-Marsh... I'm gonna let you testify again... but I'm...

M: Oh... yea... sure...

J: I'm tryin' to let each one of you ladies have a chance...

M: Understand.

J: Ms. Beno-Marsh... listen to the concept. Ms. Collura... listen to the concept. I want each one of you to have the opportunity to ask questions of each other. If you choose NOT to ask questions... that's
your... that's okay... but I'd like you to each have a chance to ask questions and... and... and if you don't... okay... but I'd like you to ask... ask the questions of each other. I'll let each one of you have
one more chance to speak as well. Now I don't know whether there are witnesses out here... somebody you'd like to call as a witness... but we'll get to those witnesses as well.

So... Ms. Beno-Marsh... with that kind of as the thumbnail sketch of where we're tryin' to go... did you have any questions you'd like to ask of Ms. Collura?

M: I do.

J: Go ahead.

M: Okay... so... Joy... YOU said that...

J: And... and Ms. Beno, Collura...

M: Yes?

J: .We do prefer to keep the emotion level down.

M: Yes.

J: So let's call her... uh... Ms. Collura...

M: Ms. Collura.

J: ...and in a nice tone of voice.

M: Ms. Collura... you said that you have not seen all the guys... uhm...  in this psychic stuff... and that you really haven't written about it online... but I have something here from December 24th from
InvestigativeMEDIA that completely says the opposite of that... that you wrote... uhm... talking about every single one of the guys and how they psychicly spoke to you as they walked by you one day...

J: ( Interrupting ) Ms... Ms. Beno-Marsh... if I could ask you just to ask a question. You spent about 30 seconds there just... talking...

M: Yes.

J: ...and that's NOT a question.

M: So... if you didn't... if you haven't seen all the guys... and you haven't written about it...then why do I have ( this )?

C: Okay... so again... I'm a hundred percent transparency... and when you start... when you start to read the InvestigativeMEDIA page it's a... it's an open forum where anybody's freedom of speech... no
one's even moderated, really, unless you use a link or something... and a lot of people just throw out theories... and I get tired of hearin' the theories... and people that are on there a lot know...  so I can
see if someone comes on there and doesn't go on there frequent and go... "Oh, my God! Is that right?", ya know, and thinkin' that.

But the people that are on there a lot... I'm... not time... time after time after time have stated, ya know, you gotta respect the... the theories and stuff because... uhm... from day one... everybody, like,
against Willis or this or that.

My whole thing is when I'm hikin' people... I want clarity.

And in my... in my hikes... and she says I am a small... uh... uh... thing in this.

It's not true. In my hikes I have proven that Willis was where he was... and in my hikes I have photos and... and accounts from people from firefighters to people, homeowners and stuff, that... whatever
Willis stated is exactly what it was in the... in that SAIR.

And that's by... when my hikes... I... I... start to sense... the... the timestamps are and put all the pieces together because a lotta people think it was just orchestrated, theories and stuff, and its... by doin'
these hikes each person gets a little piece of the puzzle.

And so when she read that thing... I went through the whole thing sayin'...  hey... da da da DA... ya know... and it... it's... it's just a... like... and in the very last comment on the comment after that sayin'
"Hey... now do you see my point?"

I mean we all could come here and sit and do theories all day... but there's NOTHING I said harmful in anything I did.

J: If... If I can... ladies BOTH... uhm... the issue that I have before me is whether I should leave an order of... of protection in place... uh... it IS a restraining order I... I must say... uh... Ms... Ms.
Beno-Marsh.

C: Thank you.

J: An injunction against harassment is a type of restraining order. It tells somebody to do something or not to do something. Uh... uh... the question is whether I leave an injunction against harassment in
place.

I want the different issues about how the great tragedies happened... or where people were or where it happened... uh.. or people's opinion about it... the causes of it... are NOT before me.

The... the question is whether I should leave an order of injunction in place... uh... an injunction against harassment in place... telling you, Ms. Collura, to leave Ms. Beno-Marsh alone.

And so please... if you we could focus in on that as opposed to the other details that you may have differences about... and so please... really... it's not relevant about... about a lot of the other issues
that you might have differences about.

So... really... just focus in on that particular issue.

Should I leave an injunction against harassment in place... or not?

M: Can I have... uhm...  Ms. Collura read something that she wrote on InvestigativeMEDIA? Would that be appropriate?

J: Sure.

M: Okay ( Ms. Beno-Marsh starts to move towards Ms. Collura )

J: ( Stops her ) You stay where you are at. My bailiff is gonna come. Uh... Ms... Ms. Collura... take a look...

M: It's...

J: ...at what Ms. Beno-Marsh is asking you to read.

M: It starts at the bottom there.

C: Okay... and again... before I...

J: ( Interrupting ) Excuse me... can you... can you just first read it.

C: Okay.

J: I think there's a question coming back here...

C: Sure.

J: So just... first read it.

C: ( Ms. Collura begins to read out loud ) December 28th... and...

J: No no... just to yourself. To yourself.

C: To myself.

J: Yes.

C: Okay.

( Pause while Ms. Collura reads ).
( She only reads for 5 seconds and then says... )

C: I know this by heart... because I wrote it.

J: Allright. So... why don't you... uh... give it back to my bailiff who will give it to Ms. Beno-Marsh... and Ms. Beno-Marsh... if you have a question about that... go for it.

M: Yea. Uhm... I feel, Ms. Collura, like this is extremely derogatory towards me and, uhm, very harassing... to me. Uhm...

J: ( Interrupting. Exasperated now ) Ms.... Ms. Beno-Marsh... if you have a question...

M: It's... I...

J: That... that is NOT a question. So... one...

M: Yes... I...

J: Ms. Beno-Marsh... one way to KNOW you're asking a question... if you start off by saying "Isn't it true that..."

M: Okay

J: ...and then fill in the rest of the question...

M: Yes.

J: ...either she's going to agree with you... or she's going to disagree with you.

M: Okay... so... (pause) Is it true that this is harassing?

C: Uhm... on your... on that statement that I stated on there... you have to remember on October 14th I had a mishap and confusion happened with Christy the... uh... Yarnell fire department captain...
and then the next day I was warned that she does not want to communicate and I wrote you back... but meanwhile... through the communities... October, November, December... YCSO pulled me over
when I'm doin'...

J: ( Interrupting ) Excuse me, maam. Can you ans... answer the question?
She asked you to look at this and you said you know it by heart... and so...

C: Yep. I do.

J: ...would you consider that annoying or harassing to Ms...

C: No, I do not.

J: Allright. So she's answered your question.
Uh... Ms. Beno-Marsh? Do you have another question?

M: Yes. Uhm... I can read this later, is that correct?

J: Uh... I... I'd like to...

M: Part of it?

J: ...get briefly into... into... the... the... specific details...

M: Okay.

J: ...did you want me to... to consider something as a piece of evidence here today?

M: Yes.

J: Allright. So why don't we just staple that together... uh...

M: Put it...

J: Good. Got it. We'll label this as exhibit number one.
Do you have any objections to me considering this, Ms. Collura?

C: Yes, I do, because in... in the matter of that thing... it's on a blog and she... it... the harassment is supposed to be more than one... and that's a... a comment made because after she told me I could
not talk to her... 3 months of havin' to hear from the community of her tellin' this stuff... I feel that I had a right to make that comment. I had no source to tell her anything.

J: You just indicate that you have actually written this... is that right?

C: Correct.

J: Alright. I'm... I'm gonna... uh... read it to at least answer the question as far as whether I will officially consider it.

( Judge begins reading 'Exhibit number one' from Ms. Beno-Marsh )
( 5 second pause )

J: ( To Ms. Beno-Marsh ) I'm sorry... am I supposed to be looking in the... in the pink area?

M: Yes sir.

( Judge continues reading for 1 minute and 17 seconds ).

J: Allright... I am gonna... uh... uh... consider this. I will admit it as exhibit number one. Uh... Ms... Ms. Marsh... uh... uh... Ms. Beno-Marsh...  uh... do you have further questions you'd like to ask of... uh...
Ms. Collura?

M: Ms. Collura... after I asked you through an email not to contact me anymore... and after I stated that I would get an injunction against harassment against you... did you contact me again?

C: I did not contact you. I stated on a blog out of frustration 'cus for three months and bein' bothered on... by YCSO on the day I'm supposed to be havin' no stress to go get my cancer marker bloodwork
done... I found it not right... and I have a... a statement here from people that... sayin' that she then wanted me arrested... and it... it just kept goin' on... so somebody's feedin' him that I'm goin' to the
site... and that's why I made that comment.

M: So...

C: I wanted it to stop.

M: I have...

C: You have a right to say... you... a warning. You tell me no... but then you can go around tellin' everybody that? That's not appropriate.

J: Ms... Ms. Collura... you can have the last chance to testify... but I think you've answered the question. Uh... Ms... Ms... uh... Beno-Marsh, please...

M: So this email I got back from you October 15th was not you contacting me again after I said that I would get an injunction against harassment?

C: That's silly to consider it that. I'm saying "You bet... and respectfully yours, Joy".

M: I'd like this to be put into...

C: That'd be fine.

M: ...evidence, as well.

J: Get it. Allright... so... that'll be exhibit number two.
Do you have another question, Ms. Beno-Marsh?

M: Uhm... I have a question for you real quick. Uhm... when am I gonna be able to call a witness?

J: When... when... you have to finish asking questions.

M: Okay.

J: Do you have any questions... uh... further for Ms. Collura?

M: I... ( pause ) don't.

J: Allright. Uhm... Ms. Collura... uh... you... you still have the... uh... chance to ask questions of Ms. Beno-Marsh... but we're gonna let you do that... uh... later on, okay? So I haven't forgotten your right
to ask questions. Uh...  Ms... Ms. Beno-Marsh... go ahead and call a witness.

M: Chief Willis?

J: Allright. We're gonna have you bein' a little bit more formal. Come up and have a seat, please.

( Darrell Willis takes the stand )

J: Go ahead and have a seat. And... uh... do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Darrell Willis: I do.

J: Thank you. Go ahead and tell us your name.

Darrell Willis: Darrell Willis.

J: Allright. You may proceed, Ms. Beno-Marsh.

M: Do you believe that there's a threat of harassment to me and other family members by Joy Collura?

( 4 second pause )

Darrell Willis: I guess... uh... that most... uh... I believe there is a lotta contact that's not required... uh... of numerous... (pause)... several... I should say several... Granite Mountain nineteen family
members. There... there's unwanted contact... is what I... what I know about... as a fact.

M: And... has... (pause)... have you seen a change in behavior... in... of Joy Collura's behavior?

Darrell Willis: Uhm... yea... I guess I would have to say that. From the first day... uhm... there seems to be... uh... uh... when I... when I... uh... had an email early on after the tragedy... uhm... I asked them
for a clarification, because what I saw out on the... the site about the size of the brush wasn't quite... and so... the height that... that she had stated... she and Sonny had stated... and I think that's been
proven that it was taller than three or four foot brush that was involved. And then after that point there's been good and there's been... you know... uh... questionable... er... you know... uh... good... er...
I...  uh... she's never done anything towards me... but I've seen that... with the...

J: ( Interrupting )  Understood... but again... that... rather than speaking collectively of the the nineteen or the nineteen's families... or the... the chief Willis all by himself... if we could try to focus in... uh...
questions... as far... as far as Ms. Collura's alleged behavior towards Ms. Marsh...

M: Sure.

J: ...because that's what this hearing is about.

M: Yea. Uhm... have you seen change in behavior where... with her... uh... emails and things that I have shown you, and stuff on InvestigativeMEDIA that I have shown you, that's indicated there's been a
change in behavior... uhm... towards me... from Joy Collura?

Darrell Willis: I think there's been a focus and a change... uhm... between.. at you... in particular... yes.

M: I... I believe that it's...

J: ( Interrupting ) Are you done asking questions?

M: Uhm... no. Uhm... let me rephrase that.

( 4 second pause )

M: Do you... what... what would be your... how would you describe the behavior?
What is the word you would use to describe the behavior?

Darrell Willis: Hmm. ( pause ) Even though I don't know Joy personally... uh... I don't know if she has up and down days... those kinds a things... but I... uhm... ( pause ) I... I... I guess it... it... it is
somewhat a harassment when ya ask somebody to leave ya alone... and they don't... and... as high profile as this is... uh... it's concerning to me that it's concerning you... is what I am... or other family
members that I am in contact with. It... it just adds to the drama of people trying to get... move forward. Not get over it. We'll never get over it. Just move forward.

M: Okay. That's it.

J: Allright. Ms. Collura. Do you have any questions for Chief Willis?

C: Yes I do. Ah... I have an email from Chief Willis and he's talkin' about several, ah...

J: Would you like me to look at it?

C: You bet.

J: Allright. So... if you'll just...

M: You have... ah... he's talkin' about

J: Excuse me, Ms. Collura.

M: Hmm?

J: We'll mark this as exhibit three.

M: Ah... he states that I have... uhm...

J: Excuse me. Ms. Collura... when I'm speaking... allow me to finish speaking. We're gonna... uh... mark this as exhibit number three but show it first to uh... Ms. Marsh. Beno-Marsh. Let her have a
chance to read this. Allright. Are you asking me to take a look at that, Ms. Collura?

C: Yes I am.

J: Uh... do you have any objections, Ms. Beno-Marsh, to me considering that?

M: No.

J: We'll mark this as exhibit number three... and... uh... I'll read it first and... uh... let... uh... Chief Willis also have a chance to read this, too, right after I've had a chance to read this.

Darrell Willis: ( whispering to someone ) My glasses.

J: We have some loaner glasses too, if you need it.

Darrell Willis: ( Laughing ) It's just that... if I'm gonna hafta read sumthin' I'm gonna need my glasses. Thank you.

( Silence for 24 seconds while the Judge is reading the email from Willis )

J: Looks like it was just the first page. Uh... now Chief Willis... uh... uh... looks like it's just the first page of that and we'll ultimately mark that as exhibit number three.

( Silence for another 7 seconds while Darrell Willis reads the same email )

Darrell Willis: Yea. I wrote it.

J: Allright. So... uh... first thing is we... exhibit number three... I've read and considered Ms. Collura... do you have any questions of Chief Willis?

C: Uhm... you have stated that I have contacted and been in contact with several of the Granite Mountain hotshots. The only one besides the time with Amanda Marsh...

J: Ms.... Ms. Collura... ask a question. Ask a question so...

C: My question is... who else would I be in contact with?

Darrell Willis: Ah... Deborah and Jerry Pfingston.

C: Okay... so that thing I just gave you would be... uhm... page 2 and 3 would be the evidence that states that... uh... Jerry is the one that wanted the psychic, and then I got that arranged and then it got
turned around... his wife had another opinion...

J: ( Interrupting ) Ms. Collura... do you have any further questions for Chief Willis?

C: So... my question is... you said 'several' in your statement that I have been in contact with.

Darrell Willis: Yes.

C: 'Several' would be just...

Darrell Willis: Amanda...

C: ...perhaps Jerry?... and then Amanda... and then Deborah. Is that correct?

J: ( To Darrell Willis ) So... so who is it that you think she's contacted? I guess that is, in fact, the question.

Darrell Willis: I know. I have been TOLD... I don't know this as a fact...

C: So... hearsay.

Darrell Willis: I have been TOLD that you have been in contact with mediums. In fact as late as Sunday afternoon I got a phone call from Mrs. Pfingston telling in... very distraught...

C: Correct.

Darrell Willis: ...about a number of emails you sent her... in fact... I think she said four or five... and she was very distraught... and she said "I do not want mediums or psychics to be involved".

C: Correct. Me too.

Darrell Willis: And that is where the... a number... a couple... I've heard two... and... uh... that... I haven't... I don't know... well... Jerry. Jerry... and... uh... which is Mrs. Pfingston's hus... husband.

C: Correct.

Darrell Willis: And they are Andrew Ashcraft's...

C: Correct.

Darrell Willis: ...father... step-father and mother.

J: Okay... again... I'm... uh... gonna try to focus in on... on Ms. Beno-Marsh's own request for an injunction against harassment... so when we start to go further afield it's not getting relevant as far as the
particular issue at hand. Ms. Collura... do you have any further questions of Chief Willis on the issue at hand that we're here today about?

C: In fact... enclosed with that email is this part 2 and 3 of backin' up that I was not involved in that. It was... the actual person...  it was Jerry who asked me to see a psychic... and I fulfilled that... and then
his wife reacted.

J: Do you have any further questions for Chief Willis?

C: No sir.

J: Allright. Are you done asking questions as well, Ms...

C: I do have a comment that... uhm...

J: Excuse me, maam. You're done asking questions? Correct?

C: Correct.

J: Allright. Ms. Beno-Marsh... do you have any further questions for Chief Willis?

M: No.

J: ( To Darrell Willis ): You may step down. Ms.... Ms. Collura... you're gonna have another chance to make comments but let's get through the witnesses first. Uh... does anybody else have witnesses
here...

C: Yes I do. Doctor Ted Putnam.

J: Allright. Come on up.

C: The nation's lead fire fatality expert.

J: Is that his name?

C: Yes. Doctor Ted Putnam.

J: ( To Ted Putnam ): Lead fire specialist... that's your name, sir?

Ted Putnam: ( He just laughs ).

J: C'mon. We'll let you speak for yourself as far as who you are, sir.

( Putnam walks up towards the witness stand )

J: ( To Ted Putnam ): You can have a seat here sir, thank you.

( Putnam sits )

J: ( To Ted Putnam ) Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth... so help you God?

Ted Putnam: Yes.

J: Tell us your name

Ted Putnam: Uhm... Stuart Putnam, legally, but I've been called Ted for my whole life...

J: You can put your hand down.

Ted Putnam: ...so Ted Putnam.

J: Putnam. Thank you, Mr. Putnam. Now.. again... uh... uh... uh... I did just hear you swear to tell the truth, did I?

Ted Putnam: Yes.

J: Good. Uh... Ms... Ms. Collura... I'm gonna let you ask questions of Mr. Putnam, but again, we're tryin' to get... Ms. Collura...  could you stay with me here?  Can you look at me as I'm talkin'? Just...
you're readin'... don't be readin' and listenin' at the same time. Ms Collura... I'm still gonna let you ask questions of Mr. Putnam, but again, the issues at hand here are... uh... whether I should be telling
you to not have contact with Ms. Beno Marsh... uh... not as far as cause of accidents, or how tall the... uh... uh... chaparal was... or other issues that a lot of people are interested in... but... the issue to
have here is whether or not I should leave the order in place or modify it to tell you to not have contact... uh... with Ms. Beno Marsh, okay? So with that in mind... go ahead and ask Mr. Putnam the
questions that you think relevant to the issues at hand.

C: Dr. Ted Putnam... when you have taken the hikes with me... have I stated where you were stepping and... first of all... didn't I require a state land pass in a requirement to hike with me?

Dr. Ted Putnam: Yes.

C: And in that requirement... and as I walked everybody and yourself... it... uhm...  when you took a step I told you if you were on private land, state land, etcetera? Were you on... uh... when I walked with
you... would I tell you as you went?

Dr. Ted Putnam: Yea. I... I can't remember, ya know, each and every step for sure... but generally... definitely... were made aware of...

J: ( Interrupting ) Uh... Ms. Collura... again... I tried to suggest... uh... an hour ago?... ah...  that... that... the issues about who gets to go on what land up in the Weaver mountains up... up near the site
that maybe the state might be buying from the state trust land uh... as just as recent as today's paper... uh... are not the issues at hand here. And so... really... if.. if I were to leave an order of injunction
against harassment in place, I would not, in that injunction, be telling you to stay away from any particular... uh... piece of land. I would not be telling you to stay away from any meeting. Uh... if I were to
leave an order of injunction against harassment in place... I would be basically telling you to leave Ms. Marsh... Ms. Beno Marsh alone and, perhaps, you know, what language that should include. So
again... uh.. uh.. please... if Mr. Putnam has... uh... information that's relevant as far as whe... whether I should be telling you to stay away from Ms. Marsh... uh... those are the type of questions to be
asked... okay?

C: Okay.

J: Okay. So go ahead and ask any questions... uh... again... relevant about the issue at hand here today.

C: Do you feel that I would harm Amanda Marsh in any shape, way or form?

Ted Putnam: I would say physically... anything like that... no. It goes against everything I know about you. But I... I could see you two could get together verbally and have arguments. And my main
concern in this... I guess.. knowing... uh... Joy and having been up there and some of the issues in... involved... and... uh... sensitivity and everything... I... I have... uh... two concerns. One is just to say I
think Joy would not do any kinda harm that way... and I also think if... if Joy really understood, ya know, boundaries to stay away she would do that... (pause)... but I know all this verbal stuff that goes on,
ya know, that's a different issue.

J: Thank you, Mr. Putnam. Further questions, Ms. Collura?

C: I don't have any further questions, sir.

J: Thank you. Ms. Beno Marsh... do you have any questions?

M: Yea.

J: Again... let's try to keep it relevant...

M: Yes.

J:  ...to the issues at hand.

M: ( To Ted Putnam ) Have you ever met me?

Ted Putnam: Sort of. I was interviewing Darrell Willis and you came into the office. We didn't... we've... we've never talked before... so...

M: So?

Ted Putnam: I do not know you... I just saw you.

M: Right. So you believe... it seems to me... do you believe that... if... if we aren't going to get in a physical altercation then we could get into a verbal altercation? Is that what you said?

Ted Putnam: I... I'm just sayin' that you... you're already on different sides of some issues and I can see you arguin' about those issues... because part of the question was... was there any aspect where
there could be tension between the two of you and I think if you're talkin' about issues... then yes... there could be... because I think you do have differences of opinion... and might... the thing that I was
tryin' to say... really say here... I don't think there'd be anything physically done... or anything like that.

M: Do you think... as a Granite Mountain widow... as a widow of the superintendent of the Granite Mountain hotshots that all of... everyone's eyes are on him... do you think that anything that has gone
on between me and Joy has been healthy for me?

( 4 second pause )

Ted Putnam: No... but I have to say... I don't think... ya know... the whole wildland fire community... they're havin' all kinds of things to say about the issues and I'd say that isn't necessarily healthy for
you, either.

M: So... do you think it's true that if somebody writes negative... very negative things about me on a blog site... emails me after I've asked her not to and I've threatened her with an injunction against
harassment... do YOU think that... that is... a way for... a widow of this tragedy to move forward? So... do you understand the question? Did I ask that...

Ted Putnam: Yea.

J: Ms....Ms... Ms. Beno-Marsh... if I could interrupt... uh... really... uh...  Mr. Putnam's... uh.. opinion on that particular issue doesn't really... it doesn't have any relevance as far as my opinion on that...

M: Yes sir.

J: And so... uh... why don't you ask a different question if you have a different question.

( 13 second pause while Ms. Beno-Marsh thinks )

M: I don't know if this will work.

J: Try it. Just pointing out... we're gonna be stoppin' at 5 o'clock...

M: Okay.

J: uh... and... so... here we are... and... uh...

M: Yep.

J: Okay... so...

M: ( To Ted Putnam ) If I asked you to stay away from me, would you stay away from me?

Ted Putnam: Yes.

M: ( To Ted Putnam ) If I had to go this far... would it bother you?

Ted Putnam: I... it... it would because I... I think I would try... and that's part of what I felt about Joy... that she would try to... you know... honor... you know... and that's just somethin' we should all try to do
for each other.

M: Okay... uhm... ( short pause ) I have no more... I have no more questions.

J: ( To Ted Putnam ) Thank you. You may step down.
Ms. Collura... did you have another witness you wish to call?

C: ( Ms. Collura is heard quietly crying ).

J: I think you said no?

C: No.

J: Okay. Allright. Now... Ms.... Ms. Collura... uh... I had indicated to you earlier on that if you wish to ask questions of Ms. Beno-Marsh that I would let you ask questions. If you choose not to ask
questions... that's okay, too... but again... I wanted you to have that opportunity to ask questions. Do you have any questions you would like to ask her.

C: No... but I wanna make a quick... one thing...

J: ( Interrupting ) I'm gonna let each one of you have your final say-so. So each one of you has had a chance to ask questions of each other. Each of you have had the chance to ask questions of
everybody who's testified. And we'll start with you, Ms. Collura. Go ahead and... you just finish telling me whatever you want me to consider and then, Ms. Beno-Marsh, I'll let you have the same chance
to finish tellin' me what you want me to consider, okay? So... Ms. Collura... you're up first.

C: For what?

J: Uh... you wanted to say something to clear something up, so I wanted you to have your last chance to tell me what you wanted me to consider.

( Silence for 5 seconds )

C: I stated at the beginning it would affect my contracted work, workin' Federally, if you keep with this order. If you dismiss it with the conditions that I will not communicate online or go to any of the
meetings... I should... that should be enough. I don't see her, anyways. I only see her 30 seconds in Congress grocery one time. That's it. I don't even know where she lives.

( Silence for 3 seconds )

J: Okay... so... this brings up a... a question, I guess. Uh... uh... if... if... she were to make that sort of... uh... uh... promise here today... Ms. Beno-Marsh, would that satisfy you, or not?

M: No.

J: Okay. So did you wish to have your final say-so, Ms. Beno-Marsh?

M: Yes.

J: Briefly. Go for it.

M: Because I asked her to leave me alone, and bec... in an email... that you have... and because I asked her... I explicitly stated that I would get an...  a... uhm... an order of protection... or... a... uhm...
injunction against harassment against her if she contin... if she contacted me again... and because she actually sent me another email... which you have up there... after I asked her that... and then she
introduced herself to me...  and this whole conversation in the Congress country store was inflammatory and very hurtful... I don't trust that she will do what she says she's going to do.

I also don't have proof that she has a Federal job that she works 40 hours a week that this would impact. So... I... I... I do not know definitively if this would impact anything for her... but I know that I need
to take care of myself... and any contact with her... any... anything is... is damaging to me because she has no boundaries or sense of decorum when it comes to me.

J: Allright. Thank you. Allright. So... ladies... each one of you have had a chance to present me your side of the case and ask questions of every... everybody else in the room... uh... uh...

Ms... Ms. Collura... I am gonna basically leave the order in place, but I'm also gonna modify it to say... uh... that...  uh... the order is modified to forbid the defendant... that means you, Ms. Collura... from
speaking about the plaintiff in any way such as in person, in writing, internet, phone, fax, social media, etcetera. So it's basically... uh... Ms.... Ms... uh... Beno-Marsh is off... uh... is off the... off the radar,
shall we say, as far as your talking with anybody. Uh... really... she's asked to be left alone... which means not just... uh... stay away from her residence... uh... It means... uh... It says, basically, do not
speak about her to anybody... uh... in any manner... on the phone, in fax, in writing, internets... uh... social media, however one can think about it... you just... ya know... don't talk about her at all.

Uh... Ms. Beno-Marsh... I... I have to say that basically is it as far as what I'm gonna tell her to... not to do. Uh... I'm afraid that the tragedy that happened June 30, 2013... uh... was something that... that
we're all gonna be livin' with the rest of our lives. It's just a... it was a... a kick in the gut for the whole community. Countywide plus statewide, nationwide. One of those great tragedies that just... ya know...
it's one of those things that one can remember where one was when one first heard about something like that... and that's gonna be a... a great emotional impact on everybody... and because of it
being... uhm... such a... a major event... that means that... uh... uh... people are gonna... well... continue to have opinions about it, talk about it, have meetings about it, have memorials about it... uh... all
the different things that... that come along with great... uh... national tragedies like that.

I'm not gonna tell Ms. Collura to not go to public meetings.

I'm not gonna tell her to not... uh... hike the mountains or... or go to the site if, in fact, it's open to public or not. I'm not gonna... I figure it's up to State land department or, indeed, if somebody buys the
property to... to... ya know... have the legal... uh... right... if they do... to say that somebody can or cannot go to the property under what conditions. That's beyond what I'm doing here today.

And I... I'm not telling her, I'm afraid, to not speak about your... your... uh... husband.

Uh... ya know... that... that... ya know... the... the fireman Marsh... uh... certainly... uh... was... was a hero... but... ya know... was one of the 19 and... and certainly was a supervisor... and... ya know...
there... there's just things that people talk about or whatever... but... uh... it's... it's something, I'm afraid, that's just something one has to live with... and the fact that there will be... uh... public
discussion... uh... public uh... uh... opinions about what happened and why things happened or who... who was or was not responsible or whatever.

And so I'm not gonna order her, likewise, to not... not speak about your husband...  uh... or, indeed, about tragedies or about whatever opinions she might have.

But... uh... Ms. Collura... having said that... you are to leave Ms. Beno-Marsh alone.

So you are not to talk about her. You are not to... to... ya know... anybody. In private, on the phone, writing, fax, inter... internet, blogs, you just think about  however one can... uh... uh... talk about
somebody... just nothing at all. Just to leave her alone.

Uh... if... ladies... you happen to be at the same public meeting... I'm not tellin' you, Ms. Collura, to not go to the same public meeting you chose to go to, Ms. Beno-Marsh, but if you go to the same public
meeting then sit on opposite sides of the... the hall and leave each other alone. Don't speak about each other. Don't ask questions of... of each other.

Ms. Beno-Marsh... uh... you asked me to tell her to stay away from you... which means... in essence... you've got to stay away from her as well.

Uh... which means... uh... uh... may I suggest to you that... that... you should not be the police officer... uh... uh... trying to say "Does somebody have the right to be somewhere... or not".

If you start to inject yourself into "Does she have the right to be doing something'"... ya know... you're starting the contact yourself and... uh... uh... that... uh... sort of opens up a two-way street.

Uh... the order, in essence, is a two-way street... is a two-way order in the fact that if Ms. Collura were to make contact with you, Ms. Beno-Marsh, she would be in violation of a court order... but if you
were to contact her... you would be aiding and abetting her to be contacting you, which means you, yourself, would be the... be then in violation of a court order.

So it is really a two-way street.

In the... so since this order is... is remaining in effect... public meetings aside... where each of you, I think, has the right to be at a public meeting... uh... if you go to a restaurant... uh... the... if... if the first
person is there at the restaurant, and the second person comes to the door and sees the first person already seated at the restaurant... the second person turns around and goes to a different
restaurant.

It would not be fair... uh... uh... and sorta not my order, Ms. Beno-Marsh, that if you were the second person coming to the front door that Ms... uh... Collura has to stand up and go out the back door.

And so... if Ms. Beno-Marsh... as the example... you come to the restaurant and you see Ms. Collura already there... she gets to stay there and you turn around and go to a different restaurant or come
back in an hour's time, or whatever.

But that's the same rule for you then, Ms. Collura, as well.

If you happen to come into the restaurant and you already see Ms. Beno-Marsh at the restaurant then turn around and go somewhere else.

Public meetings... I... I figure those... those things happen uniquely... so that I... I'm... I'm not gonna say that "well... first person there gets to stay there and second person can't... cannot go to public
meeting".

Uh... if there's a public meeting you both choose to go to... again... okay...  but... separate sides of the... the hall. You don't sit next to each other... and even if one of you speaks... the other one doesn't
ask questions of the other.

You just leave each other alone. Ms. Collura... do you understand?

C: Can I make one comment?

J: Sure.

C: You just explained all the rules... and... and in... in listening to the rules... again... if that lady never came up to me... I would've never have emailed her. And if she... ya know... all I said is... "You bet.
Respectfully. Joy".

J: Now listen...

C: ( Raising her voice ) She's the one that communicated the past few months. That's what... that's what this is all about. So can I ask how I can... uh... get a... a transcript and conflict of interest here
because that's not fair.

J: Ms. Collura... if you wanna get a copy of the audio of what's happened here today you can certainly talk to my clerk afterwards... but Ms. Collura...  I am... I'm... I'm very well convinced that you've done
a series of things and course of conduct that have been annoying or harassing... and even after she asked you to leave her alone... you made contact with her...

C: ( Interrupting ) But it's okay she can do it to me?

J: No. It's not.

C: But that's what I'm sayin'.

J: Ms.... Ms. Collura...

C: I made ONE comment that ONE night... after 3 months of her stuff.

J: The answer is no. Uh... Ms. Collura... this was one order... uh... injunction against harassment... in which she asked you to... to... uh... be ordered to stay away from her. I am leaving that order in place
and expanding it to be more explicit... that you're just not to talk about her at all... in any way... in any manner... in any form. Uh... uh... I've tried to explain here today that she's gotta be leaving you alone
as well. Okay? And... and if, indeed, she were to be talkin' about you in other places then you might come around and ask for injunction against harassment about... about Ms. Beno-Marsh.

So Ms. Beno-Marsh... ya know... we have a two-way street. If you're gonna start to talk about... about... uh... uh... Ms... Ms. Collura... then she's gonna be able to come right back into court and ask to
get something pretty equivalent to help you to not be talkin' about her, or whatever. So... essentially... leave her alone.

C: Same as me. In private she's not allowed to talk about me as I'm not allowed to be talkin' about her, correct?

J: Essentially that's what she oughta do... is NOT to do that. Indeed.

C: Thank you.

J: Allright. Good luck to you ladies.

M: Thank you.

J: Ms... Ms... uh... Ms... uh... Beno-Marsh... if I could, with respect, have you wait outside... uh... in the hallway... because you're gonna get a copy of the modified order that I've just... uh... authorized
here and then soon as you get it... go about your business.

Uh... Ms... Ms... uh... Collura... with respect... if I can I have you stay in the courtroom.
And... and after you get your copy of it... wait a minute or two... because I just want to avoid any possible misunderstandings on the way out of the courthouse... and so with respect... stick around for a
couple of minutes after you get yours... we won't have any misunderstandings in the courthouse.

C: Where was the transcripts at? Where did you say... county clerk?

J: You can talk to my clerk later on about getting an audio recording of what's happened here today, yes.

END OF HEARING
FYI- Audio 1-12 (All) have now been loaded.